Interview with John Renken | Ep 033

John C: What's going on everyone? We are so excited. We are going into our sales series and we are bringing it in with a resident expert, Mr. John Rankin, to bring us into the sales process, which is so important to growing our businesses. Let's get into 

Kacie: it. Yeah. I think every business could benefit from this. We all need more sales, right?

More sales hopefully equals more money, so let's go. Yes.

The Business Project podcast business can be complicated. We break it down to regular people like 

John C: us can understand and find success. I'm John Crespo, accountant and consultant. I'm 

Kacie: Casey Bryant, marketer and event planner. If you run a business or want to run a business, 

John C: Welcome to the show.

Kacie: All right guys. We are so excited to get into this series. I think that there are so many businesses out there that just need help with sales. I know that I am one of them. Sales is probably, I. One of my weakest links. It's just, it's a big animal that you gotta chew for sure. And, um, just, I don't like being told no and talking to new people.

And so especially those of you out there that are introverts, this is probably very challenging for you as well. And so we're so excited to have Mr. Expert John Rankin with us to go over Yes. The sales process and how to overcome objectives and all of that fun stuff. So John, why don't you start by just telling us a little bit about you and 

John S: your business.

Sure. So I've been in sales pretty much since I was 11 years old. Uh, every role I've had, Since I was 11, was a 10 99 position, except for a couple of exceptions, like the Army. Um, so I've been doing sales forever, and even when I was working for the Army training, the, uh, soldiers how to fight, I was still the sales representative to the government.

So this is something that I know very well, um, in your blood. Yeah, it's, it's been in my blood. I mean, you gotta think about it, right? You're an 11 year old kid. It gets his first paycheck because he went door to door to sell newspapers. Oh, 

John C: I was a newspaper boy too. I remember those days. And so 

John S: as an 11 year old, I was actually making my own money.

By the time I was 16, I was doing telemarketing, so I was on the phones, a hundred people a day, every day selling magazine subscriptions. Wow. I mean, this is. Long time ago before magazines no longer existed. 

John C: Takes a special person to do that kind of stuff too. Yeah. 

John S: So, uh, sales is just, it, it's something that is so important to every aspect of what we do.

And, you know, there is a lot of hesitancy about it, but we don't realize how much we actually sell on a day-to-day basis. If you got kids, guess what? You have to sell 'em on. Veggies. Mm-hmm. 

John C: Right? Yep. Cleaning your 

John S: room, clean your room. There's, there's sales cycles and processes that are happening from the time you wake up to the time you go to bed.

So you 

John C: train people how to be great at sales, right? Yeah. That's what you do. Yep. 

Kacie: Well, and I think the good, the cool part about knowing sales and what we're gonna go into in this series is that not only learning to sell, but recognizing the techniques that are being done to you as a business people. Cuz people are always trying to sell to you too.

Mm-hmm. And so I think being able to use these techniques and analyze this person is actually trying to sell me on this. It sounds great, but is it actually great? You know? Right? Yes. So there's two parts to this that they can benefit from. 

John S: Yeah. There's definitely some of that that's gonna take place is how do you evaluate whether you truly need this?

Right. But inside of that, you have to ask yourself the question, did it caused you pain? Because if it caused you pain, then you probably should listen to the salesperson, not to yourself. Mm-hmm. Because that pain means that there's a need there somewhere. Mm-hmm. And that person hit on that pain. So maybe.

They have the solution. You just don't like the price. 

John C: Yeah. So a a, uh, for a business owner who's trying to sell a service or a product, um, it's very important to, I guess, listen to your clients or potential customers and try to find what that pain point is and answer that, right? Yeah. Find a solution to it.

Yeah. 

John S: So you want to ask really good questions, uh, and let them in. We, we have an acronym, it's called cpr. So cut open the wound. Pour salt in it and then give them the remedy. Give them the resolution. Resuscitation. Yeah. Right. So because you have to understand emotionally, people don't buy on logic. It doesn't matter what we're talking about.

Right. Your, your spouse didn't marry you off. It's emotional logic. Yeah. Every buying decision is emotional. Yeah. Right. So the way that we get people to make those purchasing decision is we expose either the pain or the reward. Of the situation and get them to a buying decision. I could tell you right now, hey, um, without knowing anything about you, hey, I could take your business to a million dollars a year.

It's going to cost you this, and then I could lay out all that logically to you to where it makes perfect sense, and you probably still wouldn't buy. Hmm. Because you're not gonna biologically, 

John C: Hmm. We haven't hit that emotional, you haven't hit that, that little tug in your heart

John S: yet. That's right. Okay. But if I ask you, why do you want to hit a million dollars in revenue?

And you're like, well, my kids have never been out of the country. I want to go to China. I want to go to Egypt, I want to go wherever. And then I start digging, well, why is that important to take your kids to X, Y, and Z? Mm-hmm. You know? And then, well, because I never got to go anywhere. Why is that important?

And if I just dig it far enough, Then all the logic won't matter. It's about actually fulfilling that need. Why 

John C: do you think, um, most business owners are so scared to even think that they have to sell something? Well, we're 

John S: local to Clark Show with Fort Campbell because most of us got taken advantage of by the used car salesman, gave us 29% interest and.

You know, lost 75% of our l e s, 

John C: so I think as a military guy buying a car out here. 

John S: Right. So, but I also think that sales has, has become a, a dirty word, uh, in our culture. Because you see all the social media gurus, you see all the Yeah. The so called subject matter experts on whatever the topic is. And so you, you begin to have a negative perception of what sales truly is, if we understood what sales is, which is just meeting needs, right?

Every business has to do sales, even if they're not a sales company, because if they don't do sales, they go out of business, right? How are you gonna generate 

John C: revenue, right? 

John S: So you just talk about, you know, tax preparation, right? So if h and r Block does no sales, How long is it before h and r Block goes outta business?

Mm-hmm. Very true. But people don't look at h and r block like sales, but it is. 

Kacie: Hmm. Yeah. So let's get into the sales process, cuz I think, um, let's break some of this stuff down. Why don't you, um, start off by telling us a little bit about the sales process. So let's give them some things that they can walk away with and implement right 

John S: away.

Sure. In every sale. It doesn't matter if we're talking about your new cell phone or we're talking about TV subscription or the new car or buying a new truck for your business. Every sale has really two problems generating leads and then closing those leads. So whatever it is that we're doing, it all falls in that, those kind of two lanes.

So when you look at the process of generating leads, And getting people to the table in order to actually sell them whatever your product is, that's, that's 50% of the battle. And when I talk to businesses, when I talk to sales reps, when I talk to companies, I hear this over and over and over, well, there's not enough leads or not enough quality leads.

But if you really know your market, there should be unlimited leads. Mm-hmm. So for example, uh, if we take you as an example, how many people have to have an accountant? Uh, every business owner? Every business owner. Yeah. Or they're doing it. Mm-hmm. Which is taking time away from sales and taking money.

Exactly. Right. Uh, look at taxes. How many individual has to do taxes? Everybody. Everybody. Unless you're under 16. Right. So, When you look at that, it's not really an answer to say, well, I don't have enough leads. The problem is, is you don't understand your market or your niche, and you haven't dove into that market to understand their pain points, their problems, because if you did, you would have unlimited leads.

How many people in America have to have a car? Everybody. Yeah. Virtually how many people have to have a cell phone? Mm-hmm. Nowadays, everybody, right? It does. It doesn't matter what the topic is, we can do this all day long. Mm-hmm. Now, the other side of it is the process of actually closing somebody on whatever your product or service is.

So if your services cell phones, then how do you overcome, you know, the people that are still in the, the poverty mindset and have androids. Hey, 

John C: I have an Android, right? You're never gonna sell me. So 

John S: you have to understand in the closing process of the sale, what are the potential objections and how do we overcome those objections?

Right? And I, and I say this all the time, sales, there's only two problems and only two and every other problem fits inside one of those two categories. It's either getting the lead or closing the lead. 

Kacie: Can I interject right there? Sure. Because I think that there are some businesses, so like our business is a great example.

One of the businesses that I have, we do marketing for businesses. We connect the community with the local businesses. And so I wouldn't say that everybody is our target market, but what I hear you saying is that when you know your niche and when you know your clientele, there is a plethora of leads out there that are looking for your unlimited un.

For your business. And if, if there aren't, then you probably need to rethink your business model business, your marketing plan. Yeah, for 

John S: sure. So let's look at this cuz I actually did this with him the other day. So you market to businesses and you help businesses with their marketing social media, right?

Mm-hmm. Okay. Do you know how many businesses there are in Clarkville, Tennessee? Thousands. So the answer is, is you don't know, 

Kacie: I dunno, about 26,000 

John C: or something like 

Kacie: that. Yeah, 26,000. 

John S: When we did a search, it was over 10,000 in Clarksville, Hopkinsville, Oak Grove. So our immediate area. So if you were to do a hundred calls per week for pretty much the rest of your life, you would not talk to every business in Clarksville.

Right. Now that's not truly unlimited, but it's more than what you can ever handle. Right? Right. So for sales coaching, there are over 400,000 veterans on LinkedIn and sales. That's more work than I'll ever be able to do in 10 lifetimes. Yeah. That's who, 

John C: that's who your target 

John S: market is. That's my target market.

Right. So it doesn't matter what, what the service of the product is. If you understand your market, you truly will have more work than you can ever really do. Or like you said, you've definitely picked the wrong market, 

John C: right? Hmm. Strong, strong, strong. That is so Arga, what I'm getting from this, what both you and Casey are saying is as a business owner, if we don't understand our market, If we don't go back and listen to the previous podcast from the business project and get the marketing analysis done and get our marketing plan done and truly understand who are who we're going after, then yeah, we're gonna struggle in sales.

Yeah. Because the first step is understanding that Yeah, you, you gotta 

John S: build on that. So Warren Buffett arguably the most successful investor that's ever lived, right? I mean, there's guys that are better than him now, but they all came from kind of his pedigree. Warren Buffet will not invest in a stock that he has not.

Familiar with the product. So he is a heavy investor in Coca-Cola. When you ask him why, he says, how could you not invest in something that makes you smile? Hmm. That's his answer. But each of the stocks that he invests in, he actually does market research on, becomes familiar, and if the product's too far outside his knowledge base, he will not invest.

Hmm. It's the same with the business. Yeah. 

Kacie: For sure. Interesting. So the first step that you said basically is knowing your target market, right? And 

John S: knowing, yeah. So you want to do your research or your pre-approach, right? So that phase of, of a sales cycle is all about learning who your target market is and how to approach them, right?

So I wouldn't come to you with like, Beard oil, right. I 

Kacie: have to simply not, I have to do some, I dunno, market sometimes market 

John S: analysis and the pre-approach, I have to know, right. That you actually would potentially have a need for that park product or that service. Right. Right. Okay. So then same, same as You wouldn't come to me with like.

You know, conditioner. 

Kacie: Conditioner, right? But maybe I would come to you poke. Yeah, Zaire, 

John S: we might have a conversation. Gotta wait for 

John C: you, John. 

John S: Yeah. 

Kacie: Okay. So after they recognize that, then what's step number 

John S: two? Well, then you have to do the approach. Okay, I can have all the information in the world, but if I don't actually approach you concerning my product or service.

I've done all that for nothing. And inside that approach we want to tie into, um, something about them that we know. Okay? So one of the things that we teach is, is that if I'm gonna come in and I'm gonna talk to John, one of the first things I want to do is I'm gonna say, Hey, Casey told me that you're the best accountant in town.

Thank you Casey. Immediately he goes, oh, cuz somebody was talking wall ofk. Right. Um, or I could say, Hey, uh, Casey referred me to you. Hopefully that helps me instead of hurts me. Right? Right. And then they laugh. Right? So we have to do that approach. And an approach is far easier if we've been given their name or we have, they responded to an email or a social media post, we have some sort of end to do that approach.

Mm. Okay. 

John C: Hmm. So approaching it kind of like a ro, a warm. L warming it up. 

John S: There is no such thing as cold, right? It, so there's this delineation, right? Cold marketing, warm marketing. But if I approach you cold, what happens? I'm like, who are you? Who are you? Yeah. You can tell it's a cold approach. So that old saying, I've never met anybody I didn't know, and like that's how I approach every sales call.

I love it. Because there is no such thing as a cold call if I've done my market research. Mm-hmm. 

John C: So you got your market research. You define who your market is, then. Then the approach. Then the approach. So what would be 

John S: step number three? Then? You have to tell them a compelling story about your product or service that gets their buy-in.

And if 

Kacie: you're reading a story, you know, I've been reading a lot about story and practicing or just listening to people and from pastors to, you know, these influencers to pretty much anybody that's successful. It's, that's the main key component is telling a story. Yeah. They catch you by telling a story, 

John S: is that's actually the way you overcome objections too.

Is by telling good stories, because regardless of what the product or the service is, if you had a miracle drug that made my hair crow back, all you would have to do is show me a picture of another bald guy, you know, pro post, pre and post. And then go, wouldn't you like to have a full head of hair like him?

Whoa. Wow. Those are really good results, right? But everything really becomes a story. So in our introduction, if we're really good in our storytelling, We're actually weaving into that story objections to our product or service. Hmm. Okay. So that bef, because he who objects first wins. So if you tell me in an objection now I can still overcome that, but the ratio of overcoming starts to really slide downhill.

So what I want to do is, in my story and in my introduction, I want to weave in a couple of the common objections I've seen. So 

Kacie: you're, you're saying that you understand that there are objections and that this is other, what other people struggle with what you're trying to sell? Yeah. And then you're already overcoming it without them even having 

John S: to, you know, Casey, a lot of people don't understand the importance of social media in a digital age for their product or service.

As a matter of fact, I've heard a lot of people say, well, we have plenty of foot traffic. But here's what John found through using social media, he increased his sales by 10%. So what I 

John C: did was I over, you just used a strategy right there. Yeah, 

John S: right. I overcome. One of the common objections inside my story.

Mm-hmm. Of what I do. 

John C: Yeah. That sounds like the strategy. And I, we've spoken about that strategy previously a couple times. If you guys don't know, um, John and I, we bounce off each other all the time. We're in the same office, and I, I get the pleasure of hearing him in his, in his rattle on Yes. Do doing his thing.

And with one strategy is the feel, felt, sound, and that's, I guess probably step four. Yeah. In the, uh, overcoming objections. Yep. Feel, felt, found. Yep. Is it? That's a go. You went into that with your, with your thing right there that you just did. The Casey. Yep. Yep. Um, but go into that a little bit more. 

John S: Yeah.

So whenever somebody objects, again, remember, nobody buys logically. It's based on something they've heard and felt right. Well, I really felt like the last time I tried this, I got screwed over. Hmm. Well, John, I got it. But what we found is the people that use our social media agency are seeing anywhere from a 10 to a 20% increase in their revenue.

Right. So I found Oh, really? Yeah. Right. And I empathize with your statement, man. I get it. There are agencies out there that don't do what they're supposed to do. Right. So I'm empathizing with you. I'm taking what you've said, I'm restructuring it into what your results of your product or service are. One thing 

Kacie: I heard you say too is like the keeping up with the Jones's strategy, you're naming somebody else that was successful and then it automatically makes them think, oh, I wanna be as successful as that person.

Yeah. 

John S: And it's even better if like in this context, right? So if I know that John is working with me, and you know, John. I want to use John's name instead of Bob in Nashville, right? Mm-hmm. Right. Well, why don't you call John? He's having great results using our agency. I love that. Yeah. And you go, oh, okay.

Yeah. 

Kacie: Cool. Okay. Yeah. So that was step four. Mm-hmm. Let's go through 'em again. Number one. 

John S: Okay. So you have your pre-approach. Okay. Your approach. Mm-hmm. Your introduction slash story to your product. Okay. And then you want to close. Yep. Right When you close. 

Kacie: That's the hard part for me. Then you're like, okay, now I gotta really get into 

John S: it If, if you don't know how to ask.

Yeah, right. And inside closing, there's tons of techniques. One of my favorite is, Hey, so John, if I could provide you with a hundred new businesses a month to talk to about taxes or accounting or whatever the story may be, right. That's mine. My alarm. So, 

John C: uh, don't mind the 

John S: background noise. Yeah. Uh, if I could get you an extra a hundred businesses a month, right.

Would there be any reason why you wouldn't move forward today? Not at all. See, everybody loves to say no in a sales pitch. Mm-hmm. So I let him say no. Then I would slide the paperwork over to him, Craig, sign here. Mm-hmm. Because what are we trained to do? Right? We're trained to say no. And I say, is there any reason why we shouldn't move forward?

He's trained to say no. So he says, no. Great. Here you go.

Kacie: Doing the opposite. Yeah. 

John C: Right. Or, so there's a strategy. Yeah. Yeah. 

John S: Or there's the assumptive close, right? So I could just assume, Hey, so, uh, based on everything that I've heard out of you today, John, this sounds like a great fit for you. Why don't we just go ahead and get started today? 

John C: Yeah. I think the hardest part when you're, it, it sounds easy when we're talking about it.

Right. It's always easy when you know you can hear somebody talk about strategies and you and, and all of that. I think the hardest part though, and really for, for our purpose in reaching the small business, uh, community out there is getting them out of their head. Mm-hmm. Right. How do we get out of our own head and our own limiting beliefs in saying, I can't do this.

I'm not made for this. Cuz the average business owner does not want to be seen as a salesman. Yeah. But we also have a product or service that we need to get out there. Everybody's a salesperson. 

Kacie: We never get out of our head. One of the things that I wanna get deeper into in the future, in a future episode is just talking about, uh, a lot of other countries actually view sales way different than we do here in America.

They're like, well, you have a good product that's changing the world or improving lives. Go for it. They just, they look at it in a completely different way. And I don't wanna get into a whole lot of detail right now cuz we're coming close on time, but that. I think that that can be an entire podcast is just changing, like you said at the beginning, changing our mindset.

Oh yeah. On sales. Because why wouldn't you? If you're in your business and you believe in what you do and you're offering a, um, product or service that is improving people's lives, why wouldn't you wanna sell it? 

John S: That's right. I mean, we have entire TV shows dedicated to this. Right. Shark Tank. That is all about sales.

That that whole TV show is about sales. I was just watching it last night, and nobody thinks twice about sales in that context. Yep. But then if you boil it down to a personal level, then it's like, well, I don't want to ask for the clothes. Yeah. Like, and, and psychologically you put yourself in a position where you're not actually willing to cross the line.

Right. It's like playing football and getting to the goal line and then stopping. Because, oh, I'm not really sure about this. Do I really want to, you know, do I 

John C: really wanna score a touchdown? 

John S: Do I really wanna score a touchdown? I do, right? Yeah, so, so then once we've done the close, if there was something I missed in the story, so maybe they have an objection that's not in the norm of what I do in my sales process, right?

So my mom's got cancer, whatever the story may be, then I have to overcome that objection. And then once I've overcome that objection, I want to ask for more business. So John, um, I know you're really well connected in the community. Who do you know that's looking to expand their business? Mm-hmm. And that's the referral process.

John C: Love it you guys? Mm-hmm. All right. So let's do this. What can you leave a great, um, like takeaway? Real quick, like something that you can leave as a, as a nugget to the people listening to this podcast right now as far as something that they can implement right now to help them just get out of their head and start, um, creating a sales process.

If 

John S: you don't close business, you go out of business. Mm. Period. Yeah. If you don't close, then you go out of business. That's number one. Number two, stop being shy about asking people to support. Your business by giving you leads because the statistics are across the nation. If you do a good job on my taxes, I will refer you on average to three to five new people to do business with.

Yeah. So you think about your current roster. If, if, let's say it's 25 people and each of those 25 people give you three to five people, You're now at over 125 new people to talk to, and we close referral business at around this 80 percentile mark. Okay, so out of a new 125 new people, you're gonna close 80% of that.

Mm-hmm. So you're looking at 80 new accounts, 90 new accounts, something like that. Right. What would that do for your business? It'd be night and day. Night and day. Yeah. But we don't ask people for their business and their friend's business because we get, get, we get weird about it. We say, oh, well, Casey might not like him.

Right? So I don't know if I want to give him her name. Right. And, and you'll have to overcome that in the referral process. Hey, did you like doing business with me? Did I pressure you? Did I make you feel uncomfortable? And they'll go, no. Like you did great. What makes you think I would treat Casey any different?

John C: I think it's the same way as like asking for a review. Like so, you know, reviews are so important, um, today as far as like Google reviews or just a review on social media or LinkedIn, whatever it may be. You know, if you provide a service and you provide it well, like if you are truly sure that you're providing a great service or a great product, then why not ask for.

A review 

Kacie: or referral. Yeah, I was gonna, that same exact thing was going through my head cuz for my business, we've been working on getting Google reviews and I'm, I, I've bad at it because again, I don't like asking, but now that we have been asking, people are so happy to give it to us. Mm-hmm. Like, oh, I'm so glad that you asked.

Why do you like asking? I don't know. I just am not, I don't know. Do you believe because we're in our own head? I do, yes. Okay. 100% 

John S: you, were you truly helping people? Yes. Okay, so let me, let me take that out of the context of business. Put it into the context of something deeply emotional. If you had to cure to cancer, you knew for a hundred percent that it would cure cancer, would you share it?

Yes. Would you ask people to share it? Yes. Would you ask people to tell you people who have cancer so that you could give them the cure for cancer? Yes. Even if it was a hundred thousand dollars cure, would you ask? Yes. So why aren't you asking for your own business? I don't 

Kacie: know. Because that's a good one.

Own head. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're in 

John S: your own head. Yeah. Well, what if they don't like me? What if they didn't like what I did? Yeah. But you'll never know 

Kacie: if they're, or I don't wanna waste their time or, yeah. Poor little old me, why do they wanna go out of their way to do something? Yeah. Right. Yeah. I think women especially struggle with this big time probably, and you're, you work with people all the time.

I'm sure men struggle with it, but I think women, specifically, we we're servers, we like to serve people. We like to take care of our family and take care of. And so I think. We think the opposite, right? Like we wanna give, but it's hard for us to ask in return. We're always, we have all the kids that we're taking care of, we're the last ones to take a bath or to, you know, do our nails or our hair or whatever, cuz we're taking care of everybody else, so.

Mm-hmm. 

John S: Yeah. Yeah. So you need to shift your thinking then by asking that review you're serving. Yeah, that is true. Because you're em broadening your audience that you can serve. See, we'll never become what we hate or what we don't like. Yeah. Right. So if you say, not to pick on you, but people hate tax people, right?

So tho those people will never become biblical, become a tax, a tax person, right? Yeah. Um, so if I tell you that I hate football players, guess what? I don't do. I don't work with football players. I don't watch football. If, if I get in my head about my process, Then I actually sabotage myself from success.

So the asking of a review and the asking for referrals is really about you serving a wider audience. Mm-hmm. 

Kacie: And helping more people with what you provide. Yeah. 

John C: I love it. Yeah. And I think, you know what, to your testament, I think that a lot of people can benefit from linking up with somebody like you. To get us out of our head.

I be, I truly believe you should have some type of coach or mentor in your life that's pushing you, that's taking, helping you in your weak areas to be better. Um, and you do that. So if someone, if people wanted to reach out to you, how, how can they find you? My 

John S: digital. Footprints everywhere. So they can just type in my name and it will come up in like 50,000 

John C: different.

So you're on all, you're on all platforms. On all platforms. LinkedIn. LinkedIn, Facebook, all that. They can find 

John S: my cell phone on LinkedIn, like I have my stuff everywhere. Yeah. 

Kacie: And we'll make sure that it's in the show. Note the descriptions of this podcast too, so people can just click and find you. And I'll just 

John S: tag off that as we conclude, there's a reason why professional athletes get paid so much.

And they all have one thing in common, even the worst player in soccer or football or wrestling or whatever the sport is. The one thing that every athlete has in common is they have a coach. That's that every single one of 'em. Right? Multiple. As a matter of fact, if you go to anybody who's been successful, even Warren Buffet, even uh, uh, Barack Obama or Donald Trump, or, uh, anybody that you've ever seen in your life that's hyper successful, had a coach, successful marriages have a coach.

Mm-hmm. Everybody. 

Kacie: Yeah. 

John C: I love it. That's good. Yep. Y'all hearing us? Listen, this was great. Um, and great way to bring in this series too, because we can definitely build off this on our, on our next coming episodes. Um, if you learn something, share it. This is information that needs to get out there. Um, we're asking you to share.

Right and tell people about this because it's information that has to be shared and get out 

Kacie: there. Yeah. And there's a lot of businesses that I talk to on a daily basis that struggle with this part of business, and if they could just get some coaching from John or listen to this series, I guarantee you it will take their business to the next level.

John C: Definitely. Definitely. John, thank you so much. Thanks guys. Again, a pleasure. And, uh, looking forward to the rest of the episodes in this series because I think it's gonna help a lot of people. Yeah, 

Kacie: and if you guys are looking for more information, we go over so many other topics on the business project.com.

It's got stuff on accounting, it's got stuff on social media and branding, pretty much any aspect of business. It has lots of ways that you can continue your education and grow your business. Yes, 

John C: for sure. You don't want to miss it. You need it. Grow your business, get the help, and let's just share this to the mass.

Kacie: Yep. You'll have a good rest of your week and we will see you next week. Take care.